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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |

Jayem See
Perkone Caldari State
2446
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Posted - 2014.03.25 18:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
I might as well state that I find the recording in very poor taste. Whilst scamming is legal within Eve (and I would have it no other way) once this chap's assets have been removed, there isn't much justification for continuing to prolong his ordeal.
We've all heard clips of people singing for their ship. The difference is that it doesn't continue for several hours (whether the ransom is honoured or not.)
It does strike me that Erotica1 has taken it way, way too far.
Whilst Malcanis may sit there and say that no rules have been broken, which they haven't, it does strike me as odd that he can't see that CCP are within their right to review those rules and amend them as they see fit. A lot of people seem to find the recording objectionable - CCP's response is for them to make and not for Malcanis and a few others to decide.
I personally wouldn't ask them to ban Erotica1 but they are within their rights to ask him to tone it down. Whilst I understand they have no recourse outside of Eve, they can make a decision about whether they want a player associated with their product.
It's a thorny situation for sure. It does sadden me to see so many people justifying something like this. It just crosses the line for me.
Incidentally - Jester's blog might have been more effective if he had avoided the word torture. In this case it probably inflammatory rather than constructive.
Aaaaaaand relax. |

Jayem See
Perkone Caldari State
2447
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 18:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:31 pages? damn having a job really means i miss out on all the fun.
people still mad that dumb people are dumb, and some one took advantage of it. like every day both in and out of the game?
if so, i'm not sure why this has really got to 31 pages since there's not really much of a story here other than "dumb people be dumb, and people profit from it".
And then carry the charade on for personal pleasure and ego-stroking.
I don't see how you can realistically justify the extent of the situation they put this guy through. The rest of it was purely for enjoyment. Some people find that objectionable. Aaaaaaand relax. |

Jayem See
Perkone Caldari State
2448
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Posted - 2014.03.25 18:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Jayem See wrote:Dave Stark wrote:31 pages? damn having a job really means i miss out on all the fun.
people still mad that dumb people are dumb, and some one took advantage of it. like every day both in and out of the game?
if so, i'm not sure why this has really got to 31 pages since there's not really much of a story here other than "dumb people be dumb, and people profit from it". And then carry the charade on for personal pleasure and ego-stroking. I don't see how you can realistically justify the extent of the situation they put this guy through. The rest of it was purely for enjoyment. Some people find that objectionable. most enjoyment in this game is derived from ruining some one's day. the difference is, this guy could close TS whenever he wanted. hell, it was easier for him to remove himself from this situation than it is to safely log out of eve.
You discount the level of emotional attachment that was involved after a while. I am not defending the person that was scammed here at all.
That someone is gullible and perhaps not that smart is not reason to prolong the situation for as long as it went on.
That's my concern. The length of time that this went on is slightly disturbing to a number of people. Aaaaaaand relax. |

Jayem See
Perkone Caldari State
2448
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 18:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
Quote:then he should have removed himself from the situation
I agree - but you have to remember some people don't react how you and I might.
I think it was taken too far - a lot of people seem to feel the same. Aaaaaaand relax. |

Jayem See
Perkone Caldari State
2448
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 18:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
Quote:i understand your concern, but at all times the 'victim' had the ability to end his victimization (unlike real world victims who can't just shut off their attackers).
If he is somehow incapable of making the decision to shut it down, then he should not be on the internet at all IMO. At the end of the day, the individual is responsible for himself, no one else is.
Yeah there is an element of truth to that. I do feel sorry for the guy as he stepped into a situation with someone vastly more capable than him.
Once he was emotionally invested then he clearly couldn't cope with what was going on.
That doesn't detract from the fact that Erotica1 could have had some fun, stripped his assets, made him do something daft and moved on. There has to be some level of responsibility from the person who is manipulating someone (in the literal sense of the word.) via the medium of a computer game.
Aaaaaaand relax. |

Jayem See
Perkone Caldari State
2448
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 19:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
Big Lynx wrote:Again: how much isk was scammed out of that guy?
Not really relevant to the context of the discussion. Aaaaaaand relax. |

Jayem See
Perkone Caldari State
2448
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 19:05:00 -
[7] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Jayem See wrote:Quote:then he should have removed himself from the situation I agree - but you have to remember some people don't react how you and I might. I think it was taken too far - a lot of people seem to feel the same. a person thinks homosexuals are an abomination and shouldn't exist - a lot of people seem to feel the same. a lot of people feeling the same doesn't make them correct, or worthy of acknowledgement.
A lot of people didn't have an issue with slavery. Some did. Some people took notice of that. I don't really want to be drawn into real life examples as it achieves nothing. Simply to say people's opinions are worthless because you disagree with them is....shortsighted.
Aaaaaaand relax. |

Jayem See
Perkone Caldari State
2450
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 19:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
Quote:then i suggest you stay away from irrelevant anecdotes and stick to the facts of the situation.
the fact of the situation is as follows; he was one keystroke from removing himself from the situation and turning a 1.5 hour teamspeak session in to a non-event.
As stated before. Not everyone reacts in the same way. I don't need to argue with you. My issue is not with you.
My issue is with the length of time it went on, the obvious pleasure that was derived from someone else's discomfort and the lack of recognition from the protaganist that it had gone far enough.
When you tie that in to how it will (or won't) affect CCP's reputation I think it is a bad thing. It was just too much.
They can act on it or not - that's up to them. I'll be watching with interest. Aaaaaaand relax. |

Jayem See
Perkone Caldari State
2454
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 19:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
Quote:The fact that not everyone reacts the same way does not legitimize a persons conduct.
Most people would run out of a buring house, the fact that one guy would not don't make that the smart thing to do.
Erotica1s only responsibility was to follow the TOS and EULA as best he could, he held ZERO responsibility for the actions of the guy being scammed. The guy being scammed bore the only responsibility to protect himself from in game loss and teamspeak humiliation. He had full control over his computer and his actions and failed to respond in a proper way. Even his own allaince mates (seen in this thread) are saying that.
He also gave verbal consent for the entire thing. It can be heard on the recording.
To some extent I agree. It is totally alien to me how someone could be fooled in this way. Yet some people are.
I guess I have made my point that I find it distasteful. I can't see the pleasure to be derived from driving someone to the point that they lose it so spectacularly.
Despite all the internet lawyering that is going on, I suspect that most people's reactions are purely based on the fact that it goes too far. If you think that what happened is fine then that's your opinion. I disagree and found it distasteful.
I am just repeating myself now so I will shut up and let you lot get on with it. Aaaaaaand relax. |

Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2458
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 22:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:So.... if its not against the EULA of a video game, its ok in real life huh? Read you, daft cow. Notice the phrase "its not illegal". So yes, it is ok in real life. baltec1 wrote: Erotica 1 got someone to sing.
You want someone to kick them in the face in RL.
I wonder, which is worse...
No, I said I would applaud and laugh if someone did. I did not say I wanted someone to do it.
I don't think you are helping the cause you wish to promote. Aaaaaaand relax. |
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Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2458
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 22:23:00 -
[11] - Quote
What all of the people who defend this have failed to answer is this.
Whilst accepting that scamming, stealing and being a bit of a douche in a game is one thing.
Having done that. Why continue for an hour and a half , knowing that someone was increasingly distressed., to the point it evidently reached?
I do find it slightly disturbing that people think it is OK to push it to this extent.
Not one person has answered that question out of the usual folks that are worried about Eve's philosophy. "The game must not be diluted" is not an excuse for what went on here. Aaaaaaand relax. |

Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2462
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 22:27:00 -
[12] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Jayem See wrote:What all of the people who defend this have failed to answer is this.
Whilst accepting that scamming, stealing and being a bit of a douche in a game is one thing.
Having done that. Why continue for an hour and a half , knowing that someone was increasingly distressed., to the point it evidently reached?
I do find it slightly disturbing that people think it is OK to push it to this extent.
Not one person has answered that question out of the usual folks that are worried about Eve's philosophy. "The game must not be diluted" is not an excuse for what went on here. Half and hour of that was the "victim" ranting and raving at them. He could have left at any time and there is a long history of getting people to sing in this game.
And we have been through that. It's usually a ransom and the person is left to reship or gets blown up.
There is a difference between that and the lengths this went to. Aaaaaaand relax. |

Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2462
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 22:30:00 -
[13] - Quote
Forum Clone 77777 wrote:Jayem See wrote: Having done that. Why continue for an hour and a half , knowing that someone was increasingly distressed., to the point it evidently reached?
I do find it slightly disturbing that people think it is OK to push it to this extent.
Not one person has answered that question out of the usual folks that are worried about Eve's philosophy. "The game must not be diluted" is not an excuse for what went on here.
Well, having someone spaz out on teamspeak can be pretty funny, this is not the first of such recordings either, its absolutely nothing new, and usually stuff like this is laughed at. A better question is, if this guy was in such stress over this teamspeak session, why didnt he just leave? I mean, if someone was annoying me on teamspeak, Id just leave, hell, you can even just mute/ignore them.
I argued this with Dave Stark - not everybody is in the same place as you and me. There has to be some responsibility on the protaganists part. In this case a lot of people felt that it went too far.
I am one of them. Have you seriously never done something and then wished you had done it differently? I am sure this guy is in the same boat. Aaaaaaand relax. |

Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2464
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 22:43:00 -
[14] - Quote
I'll point you back to here and ask you again too explain how, morally, you find pushing somebody, clearly less capable than you, acceptable.
I would ask you to frame it in the light that everything was removed from them very early on. After that it was merely gloating and "tear extraction." Aaaaaaand relax. |

Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2465
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 23:03:00 -
[15] - Quote
Marie Trudeau wrote:Bad behavior all around, but nothing actionable.
Y
I also find the racism and threats from the victim to be as troubling, if not more troubling, than the scammer's sadism. Yes, people say things when they are at a breaking point, but it doesn't excuse the blatant racism in the least. .
I don't find that the most troubling thing here. What I do find troubling is that a group iof people finds it funny to incite somebody so hard that they lose it and resort to that kind of language.
Surely you must be reasonable enough to recognise when someone has been baited so hard that they lose their temper and say things that they regret. Aaaaaaand relax. |

Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2467
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 23:16:00 -
[16] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Jayem See wrote:Marie Trudeau wrote:Bad behavior all around, but nothing actionable.
Y
I also find the racism and threats from the victim to be as troubling, if not more troubling, than the scammer's sadism. Yes, people say things when they are at a breaking point, but it doesn't excuse the blatant racism in the least. . I don't find that the most troubling thing here. What I do find troubling is that a group iof people finds it funny to incite somebody so hard that they lose it and resort to that kind of language. Surely you must be reasonable enough to recognise when someone has been baited so hard that they lose their temper and say things that they regret. I had several people send me death threats for over a week when we ran the mining interdictions. There is never an excuse for unironic racism or death threats over a game.
I completely agree with you. No need. I also don't find the need to humiliate someone for a long time having stripped them of their assets, until they completely lose it and are obviously in distress, necessary either. To then glorify it and put it out for general consumption shows a kind of callousness I haven't seen before in this game.
Line overstepped in this instance.
Aaaaaaand relax. |

Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2467
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 23:20:00 -
[17] - Quote
Snupe Doggur wrote:LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:Already sent the tip to CNN, BBC, Guardian, and couple of other news sites I read. Someone is bound to pick this up.
Spread the word! Force CCP to act! Forcing CCP to act is a worthy goal, but I am more interested in quality than in speed. A quick banhammer will only fuel the apologists and rules lawyers who always demand to know exactly where a line is drawn. Just get it right, CCP, and protect yourselves from the association--whether or not you desire a particular outcome for this situation.
I think you get it.
It's not about slamming a ban on anyone. It's more about saying "Not comfortable with this - tone it down" - it reflects on their product.
After that - up to CCP. I stated before that I didn't think Erotica1 should be banned. It's up to CCP to define the line that can be crossed. Whether this is it is for them to choose. For me it crossed that line. Not my bag to make that decision/ Aaaaaaand relax. |

Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2468
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 23:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
Bloodmyst Ranwar wrote:As harsh as it may sound, scamming is a part of Eve.
However, the major problem I have is where they make fun of his speech impediment. There is no acceptable excuse CCP can give, that should allow this behavior.
This is bullying.
CCP should not tolerate this, and I'm quiet disappointed the permanent bans haven't already been handed out.
There is no need for permanent bans.
There is a need for deciding if, as a community we want this level of wind-up/abuse/"torture"/chat to be condoned.
That's something that only CCP can decide.
If they set a reasonable level then we can all adhere to it and blow each other up in peace. I suspect (with no good grounding in science) that they are rather uncomfortable with this.
It's not good publicity. Aaaaaaand relax. |

Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2468
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 23:36:00 -
[19] - Quote
Bishop Xsi wrote:
I do, on the other hand, appreciate the dangers of adhocracy. While I would prefer to see CCP return the subscription fees of the offenders, and refuse to accept their money in the future, a better solution might be to simply set their status to GÇ£blockedGÇ¥ for all players not on their contacts lists. That would go for every chat channel that currently exists, or is later created. I donGÇÖt know if thatGÇÖs possible, but itGÇÖs the bare minimum response I hope to see from CCP.
I agreed with everything you said apart from this bit. You have to allow them space. If something is not in line with their ethics then they should HTFU and say " We don't like this" and be brave.
The community is responsive and will start to draw lines. It doesn't have to be ban or nothing.
It has to be " this is what we want to see as a company - try it once and get a slap - if we warn you and you do it again we will remove you from the game"
This is an edge case. I deplore it and could never treat someone this way - but it is the game we are playing and it will throw these up. Aaaaaaand relax. |

Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2468
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 23:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Tancred Xero wrote:Quote:Permabans for saying something mean? I don't condone taking the mick out of the way someone speaks (unless you're Welsh), nor do I do it (unless you're Welsh), but people like you are the reason a fat guy can get arrested for telling a joke about fat people in England. Check the length of the recording. That stuff went on for over an hour, with the player's in-game assets being used as leverage to continue the abuse. This was not an isolated off-hand comment. He could have left at any time.
Still failing to answer the question of the responsibility of the protagonist to recognise that it had gone far enough I see. Aaaaaaand relax. |
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Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2471
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 23:46:00 -
[21] - Quote
Quote:not in the slightest. there's a vast difference between he can't escape, and he didn't want to escape.
Massve difference between being so invested that he didn't feel that he could escape without losing stuff that he was emotionally invested in.
Once that had been stripped a further hour and a half was completely not needed.
It was clear he was in distress and yet it carried on. You still haven't answered that issue. Aaaaaaand relax. |

Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2471
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 23:52:00 -
[22] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Jayem See wrote:Quote:not in the slightest. there's a vast difference between he can't escape, and he didn't want to escape. Massve difference between being so invested that he didn't feel that he could escape without losing stuff that he was emotionally invested in. Once that had been stripped a further hour and a half was completely not needed. It was clear he was in distress and yet it carried on. You still haven't answered that issue. the difference is irrelevant, he could have still left whenever the hell he pleased. and people are casually ignoring that he's a racist that threatens people, they still haven't accepted that fact.
Some people say things they don't mean in the heat of the moment. Whether you judge them for that is one thing. You might be in a rage, drunk or just joking - once you've said it it's done.
It doesn't mean that you believe it. Whether you try and dance around it with semantics is irrelevant. The guy had been pushed to his limit and he lost it. Aaaaaaand relax. |

Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2472
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 23:57:00 -
[23] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:So Erotica 1 can keep on bonus rooming it up, just use Eve Voice bro! Insta-ban if he does. 100% certain. Thats why he doesn't. But don't worry. This will gain enough momentum for action to be taken, either way.
I hope not - I just hope it makes CCP think about the extent they are willing to let these things get to. Aaaaaaand relax. |

Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2472
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 00:10:00 -
[24] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Jayem See wrote:
Some people say things they don't mean in the heat of the moment. Whether you judge them for that is one thing. You might be in a rage, drunk or just joking - once you've said it it's done.
It doesn't mean that you believe it. Whether you try and dance around it with semantics is irrelevant. The guy had been pushed to his limit and he lost it.
Yet at the same time you demand the heads of the people who were asking him to sing for them.
I think you mistake me for someone else. I haven't demanded anything. My position has been consistent. Aaaaaaand relax. |
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